|
Post by anne on Feb 25, 2009 8:12:06 GMT -5
In Psalm 8 5 says: For YOU HAVE MADE him a little lower than the angels And you have crowned him with glory and honor ...Is this speaking of a monkey??? 6 You have made him to have dominion over the works of YOUR hands You have put all things under his feet 7. all sheep and oxen-even the beasts of the field the birds of the air and the fish of the sea that pass through the paths of the seas. 2. Out of the mouths of babes and nursing infants You have ordained strength , because of your enemies that you may silence the enemy and avenger. .............. How many of Gods laws have been relaxed since evolution teaching became popular? are we being lulled? //
|
|
|
Post by anne on Apr 12, 2009 16:41:03 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by anne on May 27, 2009 17:50:21 GMT -5
retaining of sins ? Jesus gave this authority to Peter didn't he , Christians are to forgive 70x7 so they cannot retain anything can they?
|
|
|
Post by anne on Jun 16, 2009 4:23:10 GMT -5
No non RC can answer 'whose sins you shall retain and forgive' because they cannot understand Ministerial priesthood and High Priest and Common Priesthood IMO
|
|
|
Post by anne on Dec 6, 2009 16:55:09 GMT -5
There's a whole load of Canons etc: I have just discovered .
will take me ages to get through it all. Just who were the Phibionites and orphites ? and what about these love feasts that were later banned ?
|
|
|
Post by gkchesterton on Dec 6, 2009 19:04:44 GMT -5
There's a whole load of Canons etc: I have just discovered . will take me ages to get through it all. Just who were the Phibionites and orphites ? and what about these love feasts that were later banned ? The gnostics believed that all mater was evil. Because of this they fell into two groups. In the first they became hard core aesthetics that forbid any sort of marriage and lived fairly miserable lives. They were the downers The second group were libertines. That is, since matter didn't matter (ha!) then they could gorge themselves and have intercourse with anything that breathed. Their "liturgies" were public orgies.
|
|
|
Post by RoadtoEmmaus on Jan 26, 2010 12:36:49 GMT -5
As often as we are told that we should worship and preach as the apostles:
The First Apology of Justin
Chapter LXV.—Administration of the sacraments.
But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching,bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, in order that we mayoffer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized [illuminated] person, and for all others in every place, that we may be counted worthy, now that we have learned the truth, by our works also to be found good citizens and keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved with an everlasting salvation. Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss. There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands. And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to [so be it]. And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion.
Chapter LXVI.—Of the Eucharist.
And this food is called among us [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, “This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;” and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, “This is My blood;” and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.
Chapter LXVII.—Weekly worship of the Christians.
And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.
Justin lived from a.d. 110-165. One can plainly see the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist as well as many other components of our Mass today! Suchas the Sign of Peace, Prayers of the Faithful, Offerings, and Mass on Sunday.
This is one of the reasons I prefer Justin.
|
|
|
Post by gkchesterton on Jan 26, 2010 18:01:40 GMT -5
As often as we are told that we should worship and preach as the apostles: The First Apology of Justin...DESCRIPTION OF EUCHARISTIC MINISTRY To my shame I still haven't read all of the way through Justin. He was, however, instrumental in my leaving the Witnesses. Given the Witness claim to originating with the worship of the first century I expected Justin, who they were found of quoting, to support their case. I also set out, foolishly, to pen an apologetic work using Justin as a basis. Once I started reading snippets of both him and Josephus I became aware of just how difficult mounting a historical defense would be.
|
|
|
Post by RoadtoEmmaus on Jan 27, 2010 13:12:37 GMT -5
I know that they present the argument that everyone at that time would have been of the 'anointed class', yet there is clearly any argument for the Liturgy of the Eucharist on at least a weekly basis rather than once per year.
|
|
|
Post by gkchesterton on Jan 27, 2010 14:44:13 GMT -5
I know that they present the argument that everyone at that time would have been of the 'anointed class', yet there is clearly any argument for the Liturgy of the Eucharist on at least a weekly basis rather than once per year. Correct, the best sources we have available show the "annointed" as celebrating weekly. This goes back to Paul's comments in Corinthians which the Society has frequently disputed. For example I don't believe they comment at all (without going up and checking my old index) on 1 Cor 16:2 and they vehemently deny that Paul means anything but yearly when he discusses "frequent" communion (the verse for that escapes me at the moment). When combined with the instructions in the Didache and Justin's descriptions the Witness, and non-Liturgical Protestantism's, case evaporates instantly.
|
|