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Post by gkchesterton on Jun 2, 2008 20:46:10 GMT -5
" What about traditional Anglican claims? gk: You might find this site interesting: www.stthomasmoresociety.org/Fr. Bergman, a former Anglican priest in Scranton, PA, is now a Roman Catholic priest, and most of his parish has now become Roman Catholic also. There is an Anglican Use Rite for the Mass that has been approved by the Holy Father. Fr. Bergman is married and has children. There are six Anglican Use Parishes in the United States: www.anglicanuseconference.com/Parishes.htmPax, Ruth I find most of the Catholic attacks on Anglican orders actually pretty shallow. Not to mention they don't usually address modern concerns. Cardinal McCormick (if I remember correctly) has even commented on this. I was more interested in Tom's reasoning.
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Post by gkchesterton on Jun 2, 2008 20:48:06 GMT -5
I should also note that I view the AMiA essentially Liberal-Do-Anything-You-Want in waiting. When I talk traditional Anglican (which I don't have nearby; I attend a network parish for prayer service) I'm talking about TAC or Anglican Catholic groups. These are fairly well represented here: anglicancontinuum.blogspot.com/
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Post by tcabeen on Jun 3, 2008 7:57:27 GMT -5
Hi GK,
I am a bit confused by your reference to "Catholic attacks on Anglican orders." Are you referring to Pope Leo XIII's Apostolicae Curae of September 18, 1896, or the Catholic Encyclopedia article, or something else?
Personally, I could not see any way to definitely resolve the holy orders issue. But whereas I was sure of the validity of Catholic holy orders, I could not be so sure about those of the Anglicans. But I certainly respect Anglicans. Some of my favorite Christian apologists have been Anglicans (CS Lewis is one).
Regarding AMiA, they definitely lean away from, rather than toward, the high church perspective. Their services are much more like those one would find in an evangelical fellowship rather than in an Anglo-Catholic parish. I have no experience with other TACs. I looked for one when I was with the Anglicans, but the nearest one was on Long Island, at least two hours from my home, even on a Sunday morning. I knew I would never worship regularly with them, so I didn't even visit.
Tom
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Post by gkchesterton on Jun 3, 2008 22:51:03 GMT -5
I am a bit confused by your reference to "Catholic attacks on Anglican orders." Are you referring to Pope Leo XIII's Apostolicae Curae of September 18, 1896, or the Catholic Encyclopedia article, or something else? Catholics are under moral compulsion not to accept Anglican orders due to Apostolicae Curae. Therefore, the level of argumentation is usually weak. Its not something I really blame them for, they are generally doing the right thing in accepting the judgment of those with far more knowledge, but this sometimes causes a tenancy for pot shots. I tend to accept Holy Orders for the Anglicans where as I view their position as possibly illicit. However, given the fact that France for many years operated under a de facto state church (until the loss of the Papal States) I have great sympathies for traditionalist Anglicans. "Low church" is the least of their problems. Female deacons (as opposed to non-ordained deaconesses) is a much larger problem. My wife, dear soul, is far more conservative than myself. She is horrified by those who speak in church without formal dress and is even more horrified that some are shabbily dressed women than men. I can handle the readings but I quail at the abuse of "extra"-ordinary ministers that are very rarely anything of the sort and usually a weakly disguised women's club. This is one of the things that makes Orthodoxy and Traditional Anglicanism (where readers and such are still usually minor orders) much more palatable.
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Post by anne on Jun 7, 2008 11:37:14 GMT -5
Hi Tom and everyone I watched the interview with you and Randall and liked it.many thanks.
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Post by anne on Jun 21, 2008 11:25:29 GMT -5
I am looking forward to seeing some more, let's bury the hatchets which are still around and I have been wielding one for years,(preferably not in each others heads though )
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Post by anne on Mar 11, 2009 4:09:20 GMT -5
Hi, One thing I have noticed watching EWTN programmes. there is a kind of serenity , a soundness of mind, which is a welcome change from the hyper charasmatics and their entertainment churches.Good to see more Bible study,,,, Catholics need this. I am not anti charasmatic .... it's good to have feelings. neither am I cessationist.... but need balance IMO.just as Paul taught.
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